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welcome to shattered reality with their

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have your paradigms shifted in the

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truths questioned and now shattered

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reality hi welcome to another episode of

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shattered reality I am Kate Valentine

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and I am for Russia before we introduce

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our wonderful guests for today

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I have a couple of announcements to make

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one of which is a very sad announcement

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we had a fellow on here in the

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springtime by the name of Andy Danziger

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he was an airplane pilot and an

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instructor and he was actually one of

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Obama's pilots before he became

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president and he Andy Danziger passed

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away this past week not entirely

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unexpectedly since he was suffering with

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cancer but we did not know that and he

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had been writing the aviation column for

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The Daily News and it was a wonderful

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fellow and he had an amazing sighting an

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amazing UFO sighting which he was nice

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enough to share with us and we have it

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on our archives at shattered reality

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dot-com and shattered reality dot

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wordpress.com so I'm going to suggest

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that everybody who didn't listen to that

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podcast of ours and even if you have and

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you want to take a moment to listen to

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it in memory of our friend Andy Danziger

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who had in fact agreed to be our go-to

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aviation guy and you know I was already

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to ask him more about the the Russian

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plane going down and other stuff but

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he's he's not here with us but let's say

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this maybe maybe he is somewhere

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where he knows the truth about ufology I

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hope so

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the other two announcements I want to

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make are thank you to our engineer mr.

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Bill Murray DS mm-hmm he's a great guy

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who's been helping us a lot and and

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cleaning up our little mistakes and

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getting it out there getting our podcast

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all spiffed up and ready to go out and I

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also want to thank Jan Dombrowski of

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WordCamp New York City 2015 which

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happened this past weekend in Brooklyn

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who was at the happiness part and helped

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me straighten out the feed for a podcast

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but now shattered yes and we have a

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great guest and our guest is the host of

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his own show it's mr. Greg Bishop of

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radio misterioso love the name I do too

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he had been doing wonderful interviews

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previously on the excluded middle where

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he interviewed wonderful people that I

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wish I could interview but they're gone

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Carla Turner and Robert Anton Wilson and

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he has published an anthology of his

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interviews from the excluded middle

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called wake up down there in addition he

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has written a book called project beta

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which is primarily about the Ben wits

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case which he'll be speaking about I

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love listening to audio mysterioso

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because Greg is a collector of I guess

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you'd call it musical ephemera and he

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also is a cryptozoology expert and a 40

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and a 40 general 40 and kind of guy so

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say hi Greg hello all welcome to the

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show thanks for coming on to it'll be a

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pleasure to speak to you how did you

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happen to concentrate so heavily on Paul

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bennewitz his story it was because I was

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let me adjust the microphone I might

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make an

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okay it was because I was I was working

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in an office in 1987 or six mm-hmm that

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what I found out was a block from bill

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Moore's office at the time and Bill

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Moore is a kind of the main player in

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the story besides anyway I was working a

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block from his office and then I asked

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if he would be in a documentary that I

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wanted to shoot with a friend of mine

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and he said okay and over the course of

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a few years I came to find out you know

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sort of what he was doing and also when

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he made that speech at the MUFON

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convention in Las Vegas in 1989 he asked

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me to go along with him well he went

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separately he went separately from

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everybody else he stayed in a separate

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hotel he's didn't want to have to talk

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to anyone but he told me I'm gonna make

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an announcement that's gonna you know

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blow everybody socks off and I'm not

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gonna haven't told anybody what it is I

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won't tell you either I said okay fine

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goes could you help me though by helping

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you know sell things out in the lobby

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because I won't be there either so could

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you do that for me I said yeah sure

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he gave the speech and it as many people

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know it was a bombshell and everybody

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went crazy

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it had to be interrupted a few time it's

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the best puppet public speaking

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engagement I've ever seen good

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and for drama yeah afterwards everybody

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came out and people poured out of the

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place and I'm sitting at Bill Moore's

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table and they start yelling at me I

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said I don't know I'm just here selling

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stuff please you know if you got

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questions for Bill write to him or

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however you want to get in touch with

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them but I'm just selling stuff Greg I

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have to interrupt you for just a second

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the course although many of our previous

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podcasts are on UFOs some of them are

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just on parapsychological stuff so not

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all of our listeners know the Bill Moore

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story and what I said so it's not a

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little bit yeah a little background

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there I know it but yeah actually we

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should probably start with Paul

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bennewitz right because that all right

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well let me give a little bit of

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background bill more he was a UFO

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research he was around that one that

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wrote the first Roswell book based on

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the research of him and Stan Friedman

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actually he didn't write it Charles

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Berlitz wrote it but he did the research

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for it and he became kind of a noted UFO

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researcher and as it turned out he was

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also later in contact with people from

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the government and he was cooperating

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with them telling them what UFO

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researchers were interested in looking

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at and all that because I wanted to know

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if they're on to any defense projects

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and if that was getting spread anyway

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nobody knew that there were suspicions

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and then in 1989 he told everybody

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that's what he was doing so he was

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looked upon as a huge traitor and that's

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or not yes after the speech and about

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three or four years after that maybe

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maybe a little longer he dropped out of

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the field went on to do other things but

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that that's how I met and Paul bennewitz

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was an electrical physicist he died in

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2003 I think he was also interested in

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UFOs he happened to live right next door

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at Kirtland Air Force Base in

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Albuquerque and he saw strange lights

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moving around and started filming them

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these were under the purview mostly of

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the Air Force the Air Force had a

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meeting with him to see what he found

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what he was seeing because I wanted to

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know what people could just see just by

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sitting there outside the base and

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looking because I meant anybody could do

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it so he told him what was going on he

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also told them he thought it was UFOs

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and aliens and they they were perfectly

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happy for him to believe that and they

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also encouraged any of his any of his

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delusions that took him away from what

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what really was going on which was most

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likely defense project well it was

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defense project and and towards an alien

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UFO invasion kind of scenario which is

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what he had in mind

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they also strategically once in a while

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would say things to him that would

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encourage him even further but I must

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make clear that he was he was pretty

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much on the road to being completely off

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the track right away it's just that the

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Air Force and Air Force intelligence and

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whoever else is at the base probably NSA

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and a couple other agencies

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they didn't really care about his mental

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state all they cared about was him not

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finding out what was going on or telling

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anybody else and so they instituted a

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disinformation project against him there

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was a little dissing firm ation but most

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of the you know I think most of the

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disinformation or lies or whatever you

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want to call it came with what actually

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lies is one thing disinformation is

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lying with a background to make people

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believe the lie more if that makes sense

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yeah it does and I think one of the

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interesting points you made it I was

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sort of gave me a little bit of pause

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was that true disinformation to be

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really effective has to have a little

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bit of truth behind it so that it

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becomes believable and I was wondering

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just what part of the truth they were if

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anything that they were telling this man

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that really they did him quite a

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disservice I mean really quite a

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disservice well the you know what's

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funny and I will I will push somebody

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else too I mean not just my book the the

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the book Dulce based by Greg Valdez

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mmm-hmm now there's a son used some of

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his used a lot of his father's research

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gave Valdez was friends with Paul

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bennewitz I interviewed Gabe Valdez for

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the book he was a New Mexico State

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Police officer for many years in the

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Dulce area which made him involved you

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know got him involved very quickly with

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the counter violation thing but he knew

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Paul very well to Benowitz

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the interesting thing about that Greg

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Valdez told me was that anytime that

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Paul bennewitz talked about secrets

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aircraft or projects he you know people

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didn't believe him at the time but he

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was generally fairly close to what was

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going on like he said there were you

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know camouflage type technologies being

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worked on mm-hmm we know about some of

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that stuff now meta materials and using

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you know surfaces as TV screens and all

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that or projections he knew about that

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stuff but it was so mixed in with the UM

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the stuff that not a lot of people paid

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attention to him and whatever he and the

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other thing Gregg said is when every

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started talking about aliens and

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invasions all that invariably he was

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completely off the mark and you know

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well there's no way to check out that

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kind of thing and obviously didn't

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happen because none of these stuff he

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said that was going on really ever

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surfaced right at any big way so which

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leads most people to believe that it was

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just all false or delusional or you know

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told to him by the airforce or whoever

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was messing with him there was a guy

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from the I think from the NSA that was

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us wrote him a couple letters to which I

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refer to in the book that were full of

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all kinds of strange stories like gonna

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aliens putting Jesus on earth and

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starting all our religions and things

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like that to control us well so yeah

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there are a lot of people telling a lot

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of different things and then also he was

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telling himself a lot of crazy things

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and it just got worse and worse until

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his family actually had him committed to

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a to a mental health place for about two

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or three months people think it was

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years and years there was only two or

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three months but it was enough to

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basically ruin his life and then when he

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came out for a while when he came out he

272
00:12:21,889 --> 00:12:18,999
toned it down and he kept running his

273
00:12:25,379 --> 00:12:21,899
business which was a electrical

274
00:12:28,079 --> 00:12:25,389
atmospheric and pressure and other

275
00:12:30,350 --> 00:12:28,089
instruments for various contractors

276
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:30,360
including the Air Force actually amazing

277
00:12:36,059 --> 00:12:33,519
so he was a it was a fairly brilliant

278
00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:36,069
man yeah no he was not stupid he was

279
00:12:40,530 --> 00:12:38,889
very smart he he had a bunch of

280
00:12:44,729 --> 00:12:40,540
computers where he was trying to figure

281
00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:44,739
out these signals that were coming that

282
00:12:52,859 --> 00:12:46,809
he was picking up he actually wrote

283
00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:52,869
software which in 1978-79 80 was a

284
00:12:57,689 --> 00:12:56,350
completely different thing than now you

285
00:12:59,549 --> 00:12:57,699
you really had to know what you were

286
00:13:00,900 --> 00:12:59,559
doing to write software for four

287
00:13:03,659 --> 00:13:00,910
computers he would build the computers

288
00:13:05,729 --> 00:13:03,669
and write software for them and try and

289
00:13:07,739 --> 00:13:05,739
figure out you know decode the messages

290
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:07,749
or what he thought was messages that he

291
00:13:11,429 --> 00:13:09,730
was getting so yeah he started his own

292
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:11,439
business he was called quite successful

293
00:13:16,650 --> 00:13:14,079
at it and his sons took it over - yeah

294
00:13:18,509 --> 00:13:16,660
the company still exists Thunder

295
00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:18,519
Scientific actually went there to try

296
00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:19,550
and talk to them and they

297
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:21,710
great pretty much kicked me out of the

298
00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:23,330
office when he when I told him what why

299
00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:26,150
I was there oh yeah yes I which is why I

300
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:27,500
said at the end of the book you know

301
00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:29,330
don't bother these people don't go to

302
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:31,220
their house don't call them if they've

303
00:13:33,550 --> 00:13:32,450
they've been through enough and they

304
00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:33,560
didn't want to talk to me so they

305
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:34,700
certainly don't want to talk to anybody

306
00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:39,200
else so what was your whole feeling at

307
00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:41,750
the end of all the investigation that

308
00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:44,960
you did with was what happened to mr.

309
00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:47,540
Benowitz it seems to me he was just a

310
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:49,550
citizen that was trying to do the right

311
00:13:55,450 --> 00:13:51,890
thing and then was totally abused and I

312
00:13:59,130 --> 00:13:55,460
think that's why was mr. Moore that they

313
00:14:01,300 --> 00:13:59,140
were so angry with him yeah because

314
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:01,310
essentially bennewitz was a UFO

315
00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:03,110
researcher bill Moore was a UFO

316
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:06,080
researcher and instead of being on the

317
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:08,530
side of the civilian UFO researchers

318
00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:11,540
supposedly against the Air Force and

319
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:13,190
trying to get you know good information

320
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:17,570
out he he either shut up or in a couple

321
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:21,290
cases as far as I can tell did not

322
00:14:25,930 --> 00:14:23,750
spread disinformation from the Air Force

323
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:25,940
but gave bennewitz a couple of documents

324
00:14:32,770 --> 00:14:30,650
that were hand tailored for him as far

325
00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:32,780
as I know and in looking at bennewitz as

326
00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:34,520
writing he actually never mentioned any

327
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:36,440
of this any of the either those

328
00:14:40,330 --> 00:14:38,750
documents in his writing so he must have

329
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:40,340
taken more is it but because Moore felt

330
00:14:43,690 --> 00:14:42,110
bad about him just said Paul look take

331
00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:43,700
this with a grain of salt but I was told

332
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:46,040
to give this to you mm-hmm and he said

333
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:47,690
and he said Paul did take it with a

334
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:49,610
grain of salt eat he locked it in a he

335
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:53,690
locked it in a in a cabinet at his home

336
00:14:57,370 --> 00:14:55,610
or at his business and never referred to

337
00:14:58,990 --> 00:14:57,380
these documents again one of them I

338
00:15:01,000 --> 00:14:59,000
think was the Aquarius teletype which

339
00:15:05,410 --> 00:15:01,010
some people know about mm-hmm mm-hmm

340
00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:05,420
now it did Bill Moore also give this

341
00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:07,700
information to Linda Moulton Howe or is

342
00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:10,670
there was that someone else that was

343
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:13,070
basically I not that I know of

344
00:15:17,980 --> 00:15:15,260
she I talked about this in the book she

345
00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:17,990
was called into Kirtland Air Force Base

346
00:15:23,710 --> 00:15:21,500
Richard Doty who was the person in

347
00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:23,720
charge at least of that part of Air

348
00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:25,940
Force intelligence and security at that

349
00:15:29,620 --> 00:15:28,280
point took her into her room sat her in

350
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:29,630
a chair and gave her a bunch of

351
00:15:32,620 --> 00:15:31,790
documents to look at and the documents

352
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:32,630
were of

353
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:34,910
a lot of disinformation you know a bunch

354
00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:36,410
of true stuff mix with a lot of false

355
00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:38,840
things about about sort of the same

356
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,180
things that Bennett's was being given I

357
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:42,800
think they just wanted to see how far

358
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:44,810
they could push this stuff one thing I

359
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:47,600
was told about Dodie is that he was told

360
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:49,610
and everybody in the air for it if Air

361
00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:52,880
Force intelligence has told this you

362
00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:54,860
perform your duties do your assignment

363
00:15:59,080 --> 00:15:56,360
and you have a fair amount of latitude

364
00:16:01,690 --> 00:15:59,090
to be able to do what you need to do as

365
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:01,700
long as you don't do anything illegal I

366
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:03,650
don't think anything Dodie did was

367
00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:06,530
illegal a lot of it was very definitely

368
00:16:12,670 --> 00:16:09,830
unethical and one of them was having

369
00:16:15,550 --> 00:16:12,680
Linda Howe come into his to this office

370
00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:15,560
at Kirtland at night and I think they

371
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:18,350
were filming her behind a mirror just to

372
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:20,210
see what her reactions work as they put

373
00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:21,440
her in this chair and they told her not

374
00:16:24,820 --> 00:16:22,790
to turn the chair around or anything

375
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:24,830
like that and she was facing these like

376
00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:27,530
mirrored windows and they gave her these

377
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:29,150
documents I said you can read them but

378
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:30,410
you can't take pictures of them or take

379
00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:33,350
notes or anything and I think to her

380
00:16:36,670 --> 00:16:35,180
credit a few years later she realized

381
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,680
what had happened but at the time was

382
00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:38,000
very exciting I mean you know somebody

383
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:39,800
in the intelligence is paying attention

384
00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:40,910
to me and give me all this UFO

385
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:44,660
information Richard Doty was a name that

386
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:47,030
keeps cropping up here and there and he

387
00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:49,130
was even involved with Morrie Island I

388
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,750
think that incident wasn't he claimed

389
00:16:58,420 --> 00:16:56,000
that he worked at area 51 for a while -

390
00:17:00,190 --> 00:16:58,430
I put that in the book but I think I

391
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:00,200
tried to make it clear that he claimed

392
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:02,450
that there is no way for me to check

393
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:05,600
that there are there people accused me

394
00:17:09,010 --> 00:17:07,610
of just taking everything that bill

395
00:17:10,689 --> 00:17:09,020
Moore Richard Doty and a few other

396
00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:10,699
government people told me as complete

397
00:17:15,699 --> 00:17:12,760
gospel and just spitting it back out I

398
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:15,709
was really careful to try not to do that

399
00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:18,530
and if I did that I would say look this

400
00:17:21,610 --> 00:17:20,270
is what this is who sent this and this

401
00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:21,620
is where it came from it was

402
00:17:25,449 --> 00:17:23,900
corroborated by you know two or three

403
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,459
more people especially people on the

404
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:28,640
outside like you gave Valdez a couple

405
00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:30,470
other researchers Gary Massey I talked

406
00:17:35,650 --> 00:17:33,400
to who people don't know but he used to

407
00:17:39,550 --> 00:17:35,660
he was a heavily involved in cattle

408
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:39,560
mutilation mystery early on if I heard

409
00:17:45,210 --> 00:17:42,890
it from at least two or hopefully three

410
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,220
people I would include it

411
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:47,200
and not say that this is a claim but if

412
00:17:50,010 --> 00:17:48,700
I only heard it from one person and I

413
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:50,020
thought it was important to the story

414
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:53,050
I'd leave it in and try and explain look

415
00:17:59,100 --> 00:17:57,120
especially that piece about Allen Hynek

416
00:18:00,960 --> 00:17:59,110
delivering up computer program to

417
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:00,970
Bennet's there's no other person that's

418
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:03,460
ever told me that besides bill Moore and

419
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:05,620
and I said that in the book and the

420
00:18:08,250 --> 00:18:06,970
point of putting it in the book whether

421
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:08,260
it's true or not is because I wanted

422
00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:09,850
somebody to come forward and say look

423
00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:11,560
yeah he didn't do this or no this is

424
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:13,960
totally false and there's no back you

425
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:16,120
know any anything to back it up and

426
00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:18,450
nobody's done that yet unfortunately

427
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,380
well unfortunately we are not in it in a

428
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:25,360
position to corroborate anything of that

429
00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:27,520
so most people aren't I tried to get the

430
00:18:33,330 --> 00:18:30,220
Center for UFO studies who have J Allen

431
00:18:35,310 --> 00:18:33,340
Hynek s-- papers to see if they could

432
00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:35,320
locate anything that might have anything

433
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:37,870
to do with that but after calling him I

434
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:39,490
think three times they never got back to

435
00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:42,610
me so I gave up yeah yeah well you're in

436
00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:45,400
it you know just by the virtue of the

437
00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:47,550
fact that you are in another

438
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:50,920
geographical location from us here we're

439
00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:52,930
over on the East Coaster on the west

440
00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:55,900
coast you have at your fingertips of

441
00:19:03,000 --> 00:18:58,450
different different resources than we

442
00:19:11,090 --> 00:19:03,010
have you're close to you know the area

443
00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:11,100
where a lot of the original people who

444
00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:13,900
claim to be what like the original

445
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,390
witnesses well people who claim to be in

446
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:19,600
contact the contact is yes the contact

447
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:22,030
these a lot of them lived out there

448
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,010
they're the big rock that was a yeah so

449
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:28,720
you've been out there you've you've

450
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:31,180
experienced a lot of that sort of thing

451
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:34,720
but Greg how in fact did you first get

452
00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:38,550
involved with the paranormal and

453
00:19:46,650 --> 00:19:41,830
cryptozoology and that awful word that

454
00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:46,660
we'd not supposed to use ufology I don't

455
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:50,230
know I know that's what's making a joke

456
00:19:56,130 --> 00:19:53,110
about it Greg I know that you don't like

457
00:19:56,850 --> 00:19:56,140
to use that word I I hear your show and

458
00:19:59,610 --> 00:19:56,860
I'm

459
00:20:03,570 --> 00:19:59,620
and so that's why I sort of said that

460
00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:03,580
word we're not supposed to use so what

461
00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:06,190
brought you into it exactly I have no

462
00:20:09,539 --> 00:20:08,049
idea they only took this story I keep

463
00:20:12,029 --> 00:20:09,549
telling as I read all the books in the

464
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:12,039
library on the subject when I was a kid

465
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,190
yeah for probably four or five years two

466
00:20:19,889 --> 00:20:17,679
different libraries yes I don't know why

467
00:20:21,330 --> 00:20:19,899
I just I just read those voraciously I

468
00:20:25,169 --> 00:20:21,340
read a few other you know history and

469
00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:25,179
and biography and and other books but

470
00:20:31,169 --> 00:20:29,320
from about age I don't know six seven

471
00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:31,179
eight to maybe about thirteen fourteen

472
00:20:36,779 --> 00:20:33,820
all I practically the only books I read

473
00:20:39,259 --> 00:20:36,789
were paranormal UFO Bigfoot you know

474
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:39,269
Loch Ness monster ghosts all that stuff

475
00:20:45,409 --> 00:20:42,370
they even had a comic book at one time

476
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,419
amazing stories do you happen to know

477
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:47,919
maybe before you tell that would say I

478
00:20:54,110 --> 00:20:50,610
think that was the 1930s 40s and it was

479
00:20:59,490 --> 00:20:54,120
it was it was an early science fiction

480
00:21:02,669 --> 00:20:59,500
journalist continued nor sturgeon and l

481
00:21:04,049 --> 00:21:02,679
ron Hubbard and many early science

482
00:21:06,450 --> 00:21:04,059
fiction writers got their start and

483
00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:06,460
amazing stories yeah that was pretty

484
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:08,350
cool too I want like YouTube people

485
00:21:13,019 --> 00:21:09,760
always say well how did you get into

486
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:13,029
UFOs and I never knew but total

487
00:21:19,409 --> 00:21:16,330
fascination with all the books yeah the

488
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:19,419
books I mean I've you know I've I've

489
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:21,130
written an essay it's like if I read

490
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:22,750
another sighting report I'm gonna throw

491
00:21:27,289 --> 00:21:23,820
up

492
00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:27,299
the thing is you know if they're unusual

493
00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:29,860
or something like Albert Rosales is

494
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:31,809
humanoid sighting reports site that that

495
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:33,970
fascinates yes I don't care if they're

496
00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:36,490
true or not it fascinates I don't make

497
00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:38,350
that determination it's just it's like

498
00:21:43,169 --> 00:21:40,840
people see weird things and they're all

499
00:21:44,639 --> 00:21:43,179
over the map you have to you have to

500
00:21:47,159 --> 00:21:44,649
realize that and when you realize that

501
00:21:49,169 --> 00:21:47,169
you start to wonder how much are we

502
00:21:50,399 --> 00:21:49,179
contributing to this if it's there's so

503
00:21:51,629 --> 00:21:50,409
much variety there's all you know

504
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:51,639
there's as much variety as there are

505
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:54,490
witnesses practically indeed and as I

506
00:22:01,009 --> 00:21:57,130
had mentioned to Albert when he was on

507
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:01,019
this show that he is unwittingly an

508
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:03,070
anthropologist and one of the best of

509
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:04,090
them

510
00:22:10,110 --> 00:22:06,730
because it's it's an amazing collection

511
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:10,120
of stories that he has cataloged there

512
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:14,080
and if if only ten of them are true out

513
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:16,000
of the thousands and thousands true I

514
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:18,100
mean in a physical sense yeah

515
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:19,270
well then there's something going on

516
00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:23,680
isn't there yeah I sometimes like not on

517
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:25,960
shows like this but somebody will ask me

518
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:28,570
like I know if there's like an NPR type

519
00:22:33,330 --> 00:22:31,810
mainstream show or even just at a party

520
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,340
or somebody people say well would you

521
00:22:40,350 --> 00:22:35,440
believe all this happens do you believe

522
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:40,360
in UFOs and I hate that yes because you

523
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:42,070
know every word in that sentence is

524
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:47,820
loaded but you know my basic thing is

525
00:22:56,730 --> 00:22:52,260
after reading all this talking to people

526
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,740
knowing some researchers talking to

527
00:23:01,470 --> 00:22:58,720
people firsthand like I said a few in a

528
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:01,480
few cases they're you you can't say

529
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:03,520
there's nothing going on there's I you

530
00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:04,540
know because people say well there is

531
00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:06,760
something going on and I think it's it's

532
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,590
beyond some internal thing there is an

533
00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:11,200
external stimulus I don't know what that

534
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:14,950
stimulus is I think it's intelligent I

535
00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:20,440
think it either knows how we think or we

536
00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:22,750
put our thought upon it so that it just

537
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:24,820
becomes something we can understand but

538
00:23:28,620 --> 00:23:26,410
I'm pretty sure it's something external

539
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:28,630
I'm pretty I'm pretty sure it affects

540
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:31,360
people from time to time I'm almost

541
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:32,050
certain of that

542
00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:33,970
I guess close to 100 percent as I can be

543
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:35,980
but everything else is way up and down

544
00:23:42,420 --> 00:23:39,280
the scale happen well yeah I I would

545
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:42,430
tend to agree with you and that the the

546
00:23:47,250 --> 00:23:46,150
whole concept of consciousness has a lot

547
00:23:50,610 --> 00:23:47,260
to do with it

548
00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:50,620
because we create the world that we're

549
00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:54,550
in as a group reality you know we it's a

550
00:24:03,360 --> 00:23:57,280
consensual group reality on some level

551
00:24:05,610 --> 00:24:03,370
and how much an individual has any say

552
00:24:08,850 --> 00:24:05,620
in it is questionable you might be able

553
00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:08,860
to nudge things one way or the other but

554
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,230
I I tend to think that it's more than

555
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:14,080
just putting on one of those persons

556
00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:16,090
using your helmets

557
00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:17,799
and you know and having something

558
00:24:22,589 --> 00:24:19,899
paranormal happened because your

559
00:24:24,629 --> 00:24:22,599
brainwaves are changed I think it's it's

560
00:24:27,659 --> 00:24:24,639
it's more than that and I feel that

561
00:24:33,989 --> 00:24:27,669
there is an intelligence behind it and I

562
00:24:38,879 --> 00:24:33,999
think that my own pet my own pet area of

563
00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:38,889
the the UFO field is the part about all

564
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:42,070
the people who claim abduction and

565
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:44,769
perhaps are suffering from sleep

566
00:24:52,139 --> 00:24:47,950
paralysis but what better way is there

567
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:52,149
to subdue when angry ape with and you

568
00:24:57,239 --> 00:24:54,159
know angry apes with guns in the words

569
00:25:02,879 --> 00:24:57,249
of Stanton Friedman what better way to

570
00:25:07,139 --> 00:25:02,889
subdue such a creature than to interact

571
00:25:11,849 --> 00:25:07,149
with them when they are having the

572
00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:11,859
natural biological experience of sleep

573
00:25:19,289 --> 00:25:18,070
paralysis yeah it's um I think I was

574
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:19,299
reading hmm

575
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:20,769
I was reading something the other day

576
00:25:24,180 --> 00:25:22,690
about you know two dimensional three

577
00:25:27,899 --> 00:25:24,190
dimensional four-day these are just

578
00:25:30,239 --> 00:25:27,909
words but what if something from a two

579
00:25:32,489 --> 00:25:30,249
dimensional world seemed like this novel

580
00:25:33,779 --> 00:25:32,499
flatland that looks neater what if

581
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,789
something from a two dimensional world

582
00:25:37,349 --> 00:25:35,200
see is something or a three-dimensional

583
00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:37,359
world slicing through it it's gonna it

584
00:25:43,139 --> 00:25:38,830
makes no sense at all and it's

585
00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:43,149
absolutely terrifying so yeah so imagine

586
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:45,429
us with whatever this thing is if it's

587
00:25:50,849 --> 00:25:48,129
coming from another dimension or it has

588
00:25:52,649 --> 00:25:50,859
access to it or has an access to a

589
00:25:53,999 --> 00:25:52,659
reality that we're not conversant with

590
00:25:57,089 --> 00:25:54,009
really mm-hmm

591
00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:57,099
we stand it appears before us or it's

592
00:26:02,269 --> 00:25:58,690
you know just happens to be passing by

593
00:26:04,379 --> 00:26:02,279
even and it's it's completely

594
00:26:05,849 --> 00:26:04,389
disorienting to someone it just it makes

595
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:05,859
no sense whatsoever so what does your

596
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:08,529
mind do it's to make itself feel better

597
00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:10,330
and be able to handle the experience and

598
00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:12,070
all the other survival things that kick

599
00:26:15,379 --> 00:26:14,169
in it starts trying to create something

600
00:26:17,999 --> 00:26:15,389
that makes sense

601
00:26:20,909 --> 00:26:18,009
yeah and I think that it's you know

602
00:26:22,529 --> 00:26:20,919
apart from apart from you know any ideas

603
00:26:25,469 --> 00:26:22,539
you have about a collective unconscious

604
00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:25,479
there are plenty of cultural antecedents

605
00:26:29,399 --> 00:26:27,190
for a lot of people to just pile on

606
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:29,409
there I'd be interested to see what you

607
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:29,650
know

608
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:31,150
people if they've see something out in

609
00:26:37,410 --> 00:26:34,330
the middle of nowhere and I don't know

610
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:37,420
in South America or just just some onion

611
00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:40,810
you know some group somewhere that may

612
00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:42,670
not have too much contact with Western

613
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:45,430
media and see you know what what are

614
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:46,930
they what happens when they see

615
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:48,550
something weird what how did they

616
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:50,970
describe it what about those children in

617
00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:53,650
Africa that oh yeah they're being

618
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:55,540
gathered together again or they have

619
00:26:59,390 --> 00:26:57,250
been gathered together we just haven't

620
00:27:02,970 --> 00:26:59,400
gotten the results yet

621
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:02,980
wherewhere was that in Africa South

622
00:27:11,130 --> 00:27:05,290
Africa might have been in south africa

623
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:11,140
whole schoolchildren yeah yeah yeah it's

624
00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:13,420
all you know somebody asked me once if

625
00:27:21,150 --> 00:27:17,830
you finally found out some concrete

626
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:21,160
answer as to what UFOs are or if they

627
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:24,130
are or whatever what would you like them

628
00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:27,130
to be and I don't know maybe I would

629
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:29,740
like them to be inhabited by another

630
00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:32,530
species that we could actually not be

631
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:34,660
from the 5th dimension or whatever but

632
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:37,600
actually from here like on the same

633
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:40,720
technological level is us that we could

634
00:27:47,070 --> 00:27:43,570
talk to and I really don't if there are

635
00:27:50,940 --> 00:27:47,080
some ultra superior being well who cares

636
00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:50,950
I mean you know it's I so how would you

637
00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:52,870
feel like if you had your druthers

638
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:55,750
what would your final answer to the UFO

639
00:28:02,600 --> 00:27:58,570
mystery be if if anything you wanted you

640
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:05,430
mmm nobody's ever asked me that question

641
00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:08,110
and I think what it would be would be I

642
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:10,540
don't want it to be I want it to be

643
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:12,040
something that's just out of our reach

644
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:15,850
that keeps us questioning yeah ok I kind

645
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:17,500
of like that I mean it's not like where

646
00:28:21,090 --> 00:28:19,090
people say well if you lose the mystery

647
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:21,100
then you're gonna be so disappointed hmm

648
00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:23,530
like no the thing is that I think it's

649
00:28:27,690 --> 00:28:25,780
so inscrutable to us that it's it's

650
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:27,700
gonna be hard for us to ever answer that

651
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:29,650
question I don't know if we ever found

652
00:28:35,070 --> 00:28:33,490
out what it was what I wanted to be is

653
00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:35,080
something that lets us understand

654
00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:38,260
ourselves better and how we take in

655
00:28:43,139 --> 00:28:40,630
information how we interact with each

656
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:43,149
other how we feel about each other

657
00:28:48,259 --> 00:28:45,369
treat each other I think if we had a

658
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:48,269
better idea of how we operate

659
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:50,440
psychologically on a deep level which is

660
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:51,849
what I think is going on here with all

661
00:28:56,369 --> 00:28:54,129
these paranormal things its operating on

662
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:56,379
a deep level if we could understand

663
00:29:00,659 --> 00:28:58,690
ourselves better we could understand

664
00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:00,669
where the what that thing is what those

665
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:03,070
things are so that that would be my hope

666
00:29:07,609 --> 00:29:05,289
I think it was just if we found out what

667
00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:07,619
it was and I think this is what it is is

668
00:29:13,589 --> 00:29:11,830
is that we will know more about

669
00:29:15,930 --> 00:29:13,599
ourselves by understanding what that

670
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:15,940
thing is does that make sense yeah yeah

671
00:29:20,099 --> 00:29:16,809
that makes sense

672
00:29:22,529 --> 00:29:20,109
I I kind of think that maybe it could be

673
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:22,539
more than one thing like yeah it's

674
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,690
possible that it's an interdimensional

675
00:29:31,739 --> 00:29:28,320
in one case and in another case it's

676
00:29:35,249 --> 00:29:31,749
something else and I also refer

677
00:29:36,989 --> 00:29:35,259
frequently to the cargo cults in the

678
00:29:40,349 --> 00:29:36,999
South Pacific you know like the John

679
00:29:44,639 --> 00:29:40,359
frum cult and that sort of thing as a

680
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:44,649
way to look at how we see UFOs just like

681
00:29:50,609 --> 00:29:47,769
those folks were seeing you know

682
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:50,619
American pilots coming down from the sky

683
00:30:01,560 --> 00:29:53,529
and thought they were gods particularly

684
00:30:03,629 --> 00:30:01,570
John from John Farrell America yeah part

685
00:30:05,729 --> 00:30:03,639
of me they made these flags that looked

686
00:30:08,339 --> 00:30:05,739
like the flags they saw on the thing as

687
00:30:10,499 --> 00:30:08,349
part of their their religion yes they

688
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:10,509
did it look like American flags but not

689
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:13,570
quite and they made little wooden

690
00:30:18,509 --> 00:30:16,450
airplanes - no that doesn't fly and it

691
00:30:22,619 --> 00:30:18,519
was like you know we have all the chach

692
00:30:24,959 --> 00:30:22,629
goes around with the big eyed grey

693
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:24,969
aliens on them and it's it's kind of a

694
00:30:31,289 --> 00:30:28,809
cult figure to us and so I think there's

695
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:31,299
a lot of parallels there but what it

696
00:30:36,869 --> 00:30:35,200
will turn out to be is is you know still

697
00:30:38,759 --> 00:30:36,879
up in the air and it's interesting that

698
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:38,769
we have a mystery in our lives not

699
00:30:43,139 --> 00:30:41,710
everything is settled but of course we

700
00:30:45,149 --> 00:30:43,149
just think things are settled and

701
00:30:47,489 --> 00:30:45,159
probably almost not they'll just be a

702
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:47,499
mystery because people want to keep

703
00:30:51,749 --> 00:30:49,330
questing it I don't think anybody's ever

704
00:30:53,459 --> 00:30:51,759
gonna know everything something a

705
00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:53,469
culture is ever gonna know everything

706
00:30:55,620 --> 00:30:55,029
because if they do then why be here

707
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:55,630
anymore and

708
00:31:00,990 --> 00:30:58,330
it's kind of like you know why why why

709
00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:01,000
why did a supreme deity if you want to

710
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:03,430
use that model create it create this

711
00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:04,810
world and it's kind of like the Hindu

712
00:31:10,170 --> 00:31:07,420
idea that there's no way to experience

713
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:10,180
anything unless you if you're just this

714
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:11,800
like disembodied spirit you can't really

715
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:13,930
experience anything it's it was created

716
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:16,720
so that the that whatever the creative

717
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:18,790
force was could experience itself brings

718
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,970
in something and I don't think that's I

719
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:23,440
don't think it's ever in if we have no

720
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:25,390
more questions and you know what that's

721
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:27,400
that questions like why not kill myself

722
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:28,030
right now

723
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:32,320
what's not to exist yeah exactly yeah

724
00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:34,240
once once once everything is known then

725
00:31:42,290 --> 00:31:38,200
you know everybody will disappear well

726
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:44,970
but you know what I find interesting is

727
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:47,290
that people who really have no interest

728
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:49,450
in this field particularly other than

729
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:51,850
maybe a passing interest and yet you ask

730
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:53,290
them all have you ever had an experience

731
00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:55,930
they always go oh no no and then there's

732
00:32:00,980 --> 00:31:57,520
that little pause and then they'll say

733
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:00,990
well there was that one time yeah and I

734
00:32:07,170 --> 00:32:04,330
it amazes me how many people have that

735
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:07,180
one time and it's always something that

736
00:32:12,150 --> 00:32:10,450
not necessarily UFO is but like yeah you

737
00:32:14,820 --> 00:32:12,160
know I just saw this really weird thing

738
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:14,830
and then they'll go on and on and when

739
00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:16,930
you see something weird as something way

740
00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:19,030
outside your experience that always

741
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:21,220
sticks in your mind and I think that's

742
00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:23,560
what like John fort was trying to do -

743
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:27,190
just bring try to gather all these

744
00:32:33,210 --> 00:32:29,770
various as its various experiences from

745
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:33,220
various people together and such maybe

746
00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:37,170
they fell into one category Charles for

747
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,500
John keel Charles for yeah John keel

748
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:43,840
right for that that magazine that you

749
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:47,470
mentioned before Kate the the amazing

750
00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:49,930
story yeah was he baby because he don't

751
00:32:54,510 --> 00:32:52,270
think so cuz he never well he wrote some

752
00:32:58,110 --> 00:32:54,520
fiction the only fiction I know he wrote

753
00:33:00,270 --> 00:32:58,120
was a softcore porno novel which I have

754
00:33:01,710 --> 00:33:00,280
I feel you really gave me a copy and

755
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:01,720
then he'll signed it for me

756
00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:04,720
oh cool very nice yeah that is that is

757
00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:05,700
terrific

758
00:33:10,529 --> 00:33:08,830
he wrote some he wrote a pair

759
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,539
I think he wrote for TV for a little

760
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:12,399
while or he claimed to and he wrote a

761
00:33:16,169 --> 00:33:14,529
couple of fiction books a lot of them I

762
00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:16,179
think he wrote under under pseudonyms

763
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:18,190
the one I have actually says John keel

764
00:33:22,289 --> 00:33:19,470
on it mm-hmm

765
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:22,299
he was an interesting a very interesting

766
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:26,289
character very interested people could

767
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:28,090
criticize him because they say well he

768
00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:30,760
made you know wrong connections or he

769
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:33,100
made stuff up or you know and I think he

770
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:36,240
did those things but he also it's like

771
00:33:40,169 --> 00:33:38,440
people complained it's a baby with the

772
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:40,179
bathwater thing well I don't like that I

773
00:33:44,009 --> 00:33:41,529
don't like this thing he did so I think

774
00:33:46,289 --> 00:33:44,019
his ideas are all bad it's like no

775
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:46,299
they're not the thinking is amazing

776
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,580
the theorizing is amazing that the way

777
00:33:52,169 --> 00:33:50,320
that he stretches people's minds to

778
00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:52,179
think about things differently whether

779
00:33:57,299 --> 00:33:54,700
he's right or not that was the amazing

780
00:33:59,250 --> 00:33:57,309
part so that that's the part I like

781
00:34:00,779 --> 00:33:59,260
about him and that's that's why I still

782
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:00,789
hold them up it's like you know one of

783
00:34:04,169 --> 00:34:02,710
the one of the few two or three people

784
00:34:05,549 --> 00:34:04,179
that are like you know I think are

785
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:05,559
really important that people should pay

786
00:34:10,409 --> 00:34:07,120
attention to and should read over and

787
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:10,419
over yes yes I know a few people who

788
00:34:17,369 --> 00:34:14,409
knew him and he was very impressive and

789
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:17,379
then as he became older he became more

790
00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:20,050
and more reclusive and you know stayed

791
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:21,940
alone in his apartment and stuff and

792
00:34:27,450 --> 00:34:25,210
would throw people out that you know

793
00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:27,460
what's unusual that I I don't think I've

794
00:34:32,849 --> 00:34:29,830
ever mentioned before on air and that is

795
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:32,859
that so many people involved with the

796
00:34:40,050 --> 00:34:36,690
paranormal also have you know a boyhood

797
00:34:44,099 --> 00:34:40,060
interest of and it's mostly the man not

798
00:34:46,770 --> 00:34:44,109
the women in a stage magic look you know

799
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:46,780
like a sleight-of-hand stuff and yes the

800
00:34:52,169 --> 00:34:49,570
people that I know who knew John keel

801
00:34:54,030 --> 00:34:52,179
are not necessarily people from the

802
00:34:56,190 --> 00:34:54,040
paranormal field and I know plenty of

803
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:56,200
people from the paranormal field but

804
00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:57,970
there's stage magicians that befriended

805
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:00,250
him and brought him food to his house

806
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:01,930
when he was elderly and stuff of that

807
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:02,530
nature

808
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:06,160
oh and but Akhil had a boy who had

809
00:35:14,490 --> 00:35:09,040
interest in in you know sleight of hand

810
00:35:17,849 --> 00:35:14,500
as did Russell Targ who was you know a

811
00:35:20,690 --> 00:35:17,859
person of physicists who was involved in

812
00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:20,700
the the initial

813
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:23,670
remote viewing at Stanford Research

814
00:35:28,789 --> 00:35:26,730
Institute and who is also a very

815
00:35:30,859 --> 00:35:28,799
friendly acquaintance of mine and it I

816
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:30,869
could probably think of a bunch of

817
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,240
others who who also but those two come

818
00:35:40,309 --> 00:35:35,760
to mind and I wonder what it is about

819
00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:40,319
the mysterious that people gravitate to

820
00:35:44,269 --> 00:35:41,940
both of those things those stage magic

821
00:35:45,049 --> 00:35:44,279
clearly it's a trick you know it's a

822
00:35:47,539 --> 00:35:45,059
sleight of hand

823
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:47,549
yes but it's something that makes people

824
00:35:51,230 --> 00:35:49,650
wonder and it makes it's a mystery to

825
00:35:52,940 --> 00:35:51,240
them and it's and you know it's creating

826
00:35:55,009 --> 00:35:52,950
a mystery for them it's funny because

827
00:35:57,470 --> 00:35:55,019
half the people or I don't know what the

828
00:36:00,079 --> 00:35:57,480
percentages turned you up like rabid

829
00:36:01,789 --> 00:36:00,089
skeptics like Penn & Teller or James

830
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:01,799
Randi that are that are kind of are

831
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:03,150
magicians and then there's other people

832
00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:07,260
like like you said like John keel paul

833
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:09,089
davids who you know who do you who a

834
00:36:14,930 --> 00:36:11,880
producer writer for roswell uh-huh yeah

835
00:36:17,150 --> 00:36:14,940
he the the movie the Showtime movie he's

836
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:17,160
a he's a fairly fairly good stage

837
00:36:22,819 --> 00:36:20,640
magician mm-hmm and you know he's got

838
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:22,829
that interest as well I've been talking

839
00:36:27,650 --> 00:36:24,990
to him recently about a few other things

840
00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:27,660
but yeah he's uh he's interested in that

841
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:29,460
mystery and another person I know that

842
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,369
does Tim Cridland that does he's called

843
00:36:40,759 --> 00:36:37,680
the torture King II but so yes yes yes

844
00:36:44,269 --> 00:36:40,769
yes I he's my friend on Facebook and we

845
00:36:46,339 --> 00:36:44,279
have some mutual friends who are in the

846
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:46,349
sideshow area although I've never met

847
00:36:52,970 --> 00:36:50,400
him in person we have mutual friends in

848
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:52,980
the sideshow area he's one of these one

849
00:36:58,279 --> 00:36:55,980
of the kindest most giving people I've

850
00:37:00,019 --> 00:36:58,289
ever met and he's also interested in

851
00:37:01,759 --> 00:37:00,029
this weird stuff and the funny thing is

852
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:01,769
that he says that you know he'll go to a

853
00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:03,450
city and that he'll do it

854
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:05,369
you know he'll do a stage act and all

855
00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:06,480
that and that he'll immediately go to

856
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:08,339
you know the weird place in the city or

857
00:37:13,009 --> 00:37:10,049
the library or something to do research

858
00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:13,019
for an article and one time when I had

859
00:37:17,089 --> 00:37:15,630
on my show I think it was on the show

860
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:17,099
maybe it was not when we were just

861
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:18,960
talking personally but because of the to

862
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:21,690
get back to the magic thing he says that

863
00:37:25,730 --> 00:37:24,150
he knows stories of magicians that have

864
00:37:28,339 --> 00:37:25,740
had weird stuff happened to them on

865
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:28,349
stage that weren't part of their act

866
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:33,660
uh-huh yes a very interesting book yes

867
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:34,200
and

868
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:36,990
yes I think that who was it was it

869
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:40,470
Houdini was watching a magician and he

870
00:37:45,050 --> 00:37:43,110
had a I think he had a moth or a

871
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:45,060
butterfly or something like that that

872
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:47,130
was part of his act and he was gonna

873
00:37:52,850 --> 00:37:49,020
make it disappear or appear or something

874
00:37:54,380 --> 00:37:52,860
like that and he he the when he brought

875
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:54,390
this insect out of the moth or the

876
00:37:59,900 --> 00:37:57,270
butterfly as part of the trick that it

877
00:38:01,580 --> 00:37:59,910
had died oh so he couldn't do the trick

878
00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:01,590
and right as he sent standing there

879
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:03,030
going well I guess I'm not gonna do the

880
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:05,010
trick a moth flies on the stage and

881
00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:09,530
lands on his shoulder amazing little

882
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:13,590
bizarre that's Dean II was watching at

883
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,210
that point he mentioned it in something

884
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:17,040
Harry Houdini mentioned it in something

885
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:18,930
that he had written and he said that it

886
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:20,610
you know he thought it was a big big

887
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:22,440
coincidence but it was very you know

888
00:38:26,180 --> 00:38:25,050
it's very special weird coincidence but

889
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:26,190
you know that's that's just a word that

890
00:38:30,140 --> 00:38:28,710
people use to synchronistic about things

891
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:30,150
I think it would be more of a

892
00:38:34,970 --> 00:38:32,280
synchronicities and a coincidence but

893
00:38:37,610 --> 00:38:34,980
those words are kind of intermingled and

894
00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:37,620
yes they are but it was a synchronicity

895
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:39,240
for everybody in the audience sitting

896
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:41,940
there watching it too now usually

897
00:38:45,050 --> 00:38:43,710
synchronicity means it has a personal

898
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:45,060
meaning for you and if that's a

899
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:46,800
synchronicity usually you don't have a

900
00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:49,670
group synchronicity which I think

901
00:39:00,080 --> 00:38:54,260
happens I think that the reason that

902
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:00,090
stage magicians tend to become skeptics

903
00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:03,210
and some of them are ridiculous skeptics

904
00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:06,030
like the amazing Randi but by that I

905
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:07,980
mean the debunkers they're not skeptics

906
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:10,110
they're really not Skipton de Mentalist

907
00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:12,090
skeptics I'm trying to get that that

908
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:14,520
term widely distributed okay well I'm

909
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,530
gonna use it okay the future

910
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:19,440
fundamentalist skeptics but even you

911
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:21,900
know just sticks are fine I don't want

912
00:39:27,290 --> 00:39:24,960
achill skeptics are good to keep us on

913
00:39:30,370 --> 00:39:27,300
to keep us on the keep our feet on the

914
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:30,380
ground but I think about with magicians

915
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:34,440
the whole idea is that if it can be done

916
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:37,710
by a trick they assume it was done by a

917
00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:41,190
trick yes and so they don't believe that

918
00:39:46,730 --> 00:39:43,860
anybody might actually be able to do

919
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:46,740
this thing without doing the stage magic

920
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:47,490
trick

921
00:39:53,810 --> 00:39:50,120
mm-hmm but you have to remember before

922
00:39:57,110 --> 00:39:53,820
paranormal there was magic with a CK and

923
00:39:59,960 --> 00:39:57,120
I think a lot of the paranormal

924
00:40:02,120 --> 00:39:59,970
developed from that field you know back

925
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,130
in the 1800s so and you're more familiar

926
00:40:08,090 --> 00:40:05,280
with it than I am froze yeah but um I

927
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:08,100
was it Crowley Oh Aleister Crowley oh

928
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:10,290
yeah don't even say the name no no I

929
00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:12,260
could not I'm not that kind of

930
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:16,230
superstitious I am but but yeah he kind

931
00:40:19,730 --> 00:40:18,210
of it yeah there's much more to western

932
00:40:22,220 --> 00:40:19,740
magical tradition than Crowley he

933
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:22,230
basically was at the end of a long line

934
00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:24,570
of yeah oh stop knowing not for hundreds

935
00:40:27,350 --> 00:40:26,220
and hundreds and hundreds of years and I

936
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:27,360
don't think it really had much to do

937
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:28,680
with the paranormal although I guess

938
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:30,450
some of the results that would happen if

939
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,310
you did it right would be considered

940
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:34,800
paranormal well and the way I look at it

941
00:40:38,990 --> 00:40:37,140
is it's basically a system to make to

942
00:40:42,110 --> 00:40:39,000
make you a better person and for you to

943
00:40:44,030 --> 00:40:42,120
be a more efficient person that does

944
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:44,040
that gets things done in this life

945
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:46,170
rather than thinking about them and it's

946
00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:48,630
it's the oldest system of self-help one

947
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:51,750
of them in existence well it's it's it

948
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:53,730
sounds to me like you're talking about

949
00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:56,640
creative visualization yeah that's part

950
00:41:01,250 --> 00:40:58,260
of it I mean that's that's a big part of

951
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:01,260
the you know what's causing reality to

952
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,640
conform with will that's that's

953
00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:04,800
Crowley's a statement about magic and

954
00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:07,080
but I think if you're if you're good at

955
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:15,100
I would say so and you know some people

956
00:41:22,970 --> 00:41:20,130
can't focus simply by using creative

957
00:41:26,590 --> 00:41:22,980
visualization then the next way to make

958
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:26,600
them focus is to go through a ritual and

959
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:29,930
sometimes that ritual is called a spell

960
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:32,700
but if you don't call in any

961
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:33,810
disincarnate

962
00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:36,900
entities and you just use the candle and

963
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:40,110
the words to focus your attention what

964
00:41:46,540 --> 00:41:42,210
you're really doing is a form of

965
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,550
creative visualization Shinya with the

966
00:41:51,830 --> 00:41:49,440
aspect of you know making it a little

967
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:51,840
more mysterious for yourself or for them

968
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:55,170
the person you you give this to and then

969
00:41:59,960 --> 00:41:57,570
they're able to focus on that candle in

970
00:42:01,220 --> 00:41:59,970
those words and you know love is coming

971
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:01,230
into their life

972
00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:03,090
yeah I think part of it is to misdirect

973
00:42:08,930 --> 00:42:06,630
your your wandering attention or your

974
00:42:14,020 --> 00:42:08,940
you know a big part of a lot of the

975
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:14,030
magical stuff is to take the desire and

976
00:42:19,550 --> 00:42:17,220
whatever that desire is and somehow

977
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:19,560
trans transmuted into something that's

978
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:22,260
not the desire so the desire so the goal

979
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,090
is still there but all the noise

980
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:26,160
associated in the ego associated with

981
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:27,660
the desire doesn't get in the way right

982
00:42:35,660 --> 00:42:31,800
I agree I agree 100% you you you focus

983
00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:35,670
on it and then you let it go let it let

984
00:42:41,450 --> 00:42:39,600
it fly into the universe mm-hmm well in

985
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:41,460
a sense that's almost what Paul

986
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:45,570
bennewitz was going through to also well

987
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:48,450
I mean like he really wanted this to be

988
00:42:54,110 --> 00:42:51,180
UFO as I think he really wanted it to be

989
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:54,120
an alien invasion and everything just

990
00:42:59,720 --> 00:42:57,660
fed into it for him and he really

991
00:43:02,270 --> 00:42:59,730
concentrated on it to the detriment of

992
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:02,280
almost everything else in his life and

993
00:43:07,490 --> 00:43:04,890
so I think he was trying to bring it

994
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:07,500
into reality I think he thought it

995
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:09,330
already was really just me need to make

996
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:11,010
needed to make everybody else even

997
00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:12,510
needed to bring it into reality for

998
00:43:16,460 --> 00:43:15,240
everybody else okay yeah good point it's

999
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:16,470
just kind you know he's kind of like a

1000
00:43:21,590 --> 00:43:18,270
lot of people that get into this or I

1001
00:43:24,050 --> 00:43:21,600
don't know a lot but a few know just say

1002
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:24,060
like this is horrible thing going on why

1003
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:26,490
don't you all realize it and nobody else

1004
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:28,170
can see it does that mean they're wrong

1005
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:31,680
I don't know in this case yeah he pretty

1006
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:34,170
much was wrong I mean it was it was it

1007
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,760
was his focus had become so focused that

1008
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:41,040
he couldn't see anything else hmm

1009
00:43:44,450 --> 00:43:43,410
and I think that happens to a lot a lot

1010
00:43:47,110 --> 00:43:44,460
of the thing that was going on in

1011
00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:47,120
project beta that I wrote about was

1012
00:43:51,740 --> 00:43:49,470
people are saying well you debunked it

1013
00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:51,750
and you'd you know you don't treat you

1014
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:54,630
follow just very well it's like the

1015
00:43:59,150 --> 00:43:56,730
point of it besides just being a you

1016
00:44:04,100 --> 00:43:59,160
know a journalistic report on what I

1017
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,110
thought was going on was look at what

1018
00:44:08,450 --> 00:44:06,240
happened look at what happens

1019
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:08,460
look at how direction your attention can

1020
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:12,540
be directed away and try not to you know

1021
00:44:17,209 --> 00:44:14,819
try not to let the BS in next time

1022
00:44:18,499 --> 00:44:17,219
the same thing happened the serpo thing

1023
00:44:19,999 --> 00:44:18,509
there were a bunch of people that were

1024
00:44:22,489 --> 00:44:20,009
involved with the benefit meadow its

1025
00:44:24,409 --> 00:44:22,499
thing that we're on this serpo aliens

1026
00:44:27,469 --> 00:44:24,419
going to another planet astronaut

1027
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:27,479
exchange thing and as soon as I saw some

1028
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:30,089
of the same names going on it's like why

1029
00:44:34,939 --> 00:44:31,619
are you even paying attention to these

1030
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:34,949
it's the same thing yeah are generally

1031
00:44:39,709 --> 00:44:37,380
the same thing yeah that was who knows

1032
00:44:41,299 --> 00:44:39,719
what purpose but it has nothing to do

1033
00:44:43,489 --> 00:44:41,309
with you know sending astronauts to

1034
00:44:45,169 --> 00:44:43,499
another planet an aliens here for eight

1035
00:44:47,029 --> 00:44:45,179
years or whatever it was and it was it

1036
00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:47,039
was something completely different not

1037
00:44:52,519 --> 00:44:49,169
not associated with that whatsoever a

1038
00:44:57,289 --> 00:44:52,529
student exchange program with the planet

1039
00:45:00,949 --> 00:44:57,299
Serkis yes the only thing in in that

1040
00:45:03,049 --> 00:45:00,959
realm that fascinates me and I am you

1041
00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:03,059
know I try to keep my feet on the ground

1042
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:04,799
and be skeptical about things but the

1043
00:45:12,189 --> 00:45:07,529
one thing that fascinates me is that

1044
00:45:16,429 --> 00:45:12,199
fellow in England who broke into the the

1045
00:45:19,339 --> 00:45:16,439
who hacked in who hacked in and his name

1046
00:45:24,019 --> 00:45:19,349
is on the tip of my tongue wasn't Matt

1047
00:45:26,769 --> 00:45:24,029
Williams he apparently had some form of

1048
00:45:30,890 --> 00:45:26,779
or still does have some form of autism

1049
00:45:32,589 --> 00:45:30,900
and he was if you're doing stuff like

1050
00:45:36,979 --> 00:45:32,599
that I think I think if you're if you're

1051
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:36,989
if you're a computer guy 24/7 it

1052
00:45:41,959 --> 00:45:39,089
probably does help to be able to be that

1053
00:45:45,409 --> 00:45:41,969
focused yeah and he was living with his

1054
00:45:47,419 --> 00:45:45,419
mother and now just recently I heard

1055
00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:47,429
that the British government has dropped

1056
00:45:52,699 --> 00:45:50,609
all charges against him but the American

1057
00:45:55,549 --> 00:45:52,709
government is still trying to get him to

1058
00:45:58,339 --> 00:45:55,559
be extradited after what 12 years or

1059
00:46:00,589 --> 00:45:58,349
something tear of yours know he came

1060
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:00,599
into something and I can see his face

1061
00:46:09,229 --> 00:46:07,169
gary mckinnon good face and once I

1062
00:46:13,249 --> 00:46:09,239
looked at his face he almost just sort

1063
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:13,259
of told me his name but you know he came

1064
00:46:17,419 --> 00:46:15,359
up with some fascinating stuff and you

1065
00:46:20,479 --> 00:46:17,429
have to wonder naval officers that were

1066
00:46:22,549 --> 00:46:20,489
assigned to space or fourth earth or

1067
00:46:24,109 --> 00:46:22,559
first well you know something very

1068
00:46:26,779 --> 00:46:24,119
bizarre well look well we were in

1069
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:26,789
Washington and he did that paradigm

1070
00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:28,170
research group

1071
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:29,700
it was in front of a congressional

1072
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:31,770
committee supposedly and then there was

1073
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:34,200
a Senator Mike Gravel from Alaska right

1074
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:36,990
who was sort of snarky and someone had

1075
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:38,490
asked him something and he looked down

1076
00:46:44,539 --> 00:46:40,770
and he says wow of course we have a

1077
00:46:46,789 --> 00:46:44,549
space force and I and everybody else

1078
00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:46,799
seemed to like let it go past and I'm

1079
00:46:51,620 --> 00:46:49,020
saying whoa back up here a little bit

1080
00:46:56,359 --> 00:46:51,630
what did you just say this was when you

1081
00:46:58,910 --> 00:46:56,369
go is it some satellites and some some

1082
00:47:03,079 --> 00:46:58,920
long room no he was talking Air Force

1083
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:03,089
space force man space for secret space

1084
00:47:08,180 --> 00:47:05,490
program he did not elaborate past that I

1085
00:47:10,430 --> 00:47:08,190
think it was it was one of those things

1086
00:47:14,299 --> 00:47:10,440
that it went left his mouth before he

1087
00:47:15,710 --> 00:47:14,309
meant it to you know but ya know he also

1088
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:15,720
might have may have said it for a

1089
00:47:21,230 --> 00:47:18,900
specific effect I don't think so now he

1090
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,240
was like just getting snarky and he goes

1091
00:47:25,490 --> 00:47:23,520
course we have a space for us yeah I

1092
00:47:28,819 --> 00:47:25,500
mean just like idiot well I'd have to

1093
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:28,829
hear it in context yeah it was it was

1094
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:30,930
pretty meaningful bill you were there

1095
00:47:35,930 --> 00:47:33,599
didn't you think that was yeah I think

1096
00:47:39,730 --> 00:47:35,940
it was exactly what it sounded like well

1097
00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:39,740
which is reminiscent of the fellow from

1098
00:47:44,329 --> 00:47:42,630
boy shows we get an old me can never

1099
00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:44,339
think of people's names oh I can't

1100
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:46,020
either I'm horrible with in there

1101
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:49,890
the fellow who ran the the airplane

1102
00:47:55,819 --> 00:47:52,890
manufacturing company that clear no no

1103
00:48:01,609 --> 00:47:55,829
no who said you know we have everything

1104
00:48:05,059 --> 00:48:01,619
oh oh rich rich rich his name was

1105
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:05,069
Richard Ben rich Ben rich yeah okay we

1106
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:11,010
said rich I think you're it all in yes

1107
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:11,700
yes

1108
00:48:15,710 --> 00:48:14,220
so you know you wonder you just wonder

1109
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:15,720
and there's got to be things we don't

1110
00:48:20,690 --> 00:48:18,390
know about going on but we're not gonna

1111
00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:20,700
know about them too soon because now

1112
00:48:26,930 --> 00:48:22,440
we're just hanging them out pay for them

1113
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:26,940
I'm waiting for the for the Holograms to

1114
00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:29,280
appear in the sky when you had mentioned

1115
00:48:37,070 --> 00:48:32,520
before Greg about you know wanting to

1116
00:48:39,740 --> 00:48:37,080
say that ancient aliens created

1117
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:39,750
you know the gods and Jesus and all this

1118
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:41,190
sort of thing and I'm just waiting for

1119
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:43,890
for the Holograms to be brought out to

1120
00:48:48,740 --> 00:48:45,870
us one day one we need to be controlled

1121
00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:48,750
and we get to see Moses and Jesus and

1122
00:48:56,060 --> 00:48:53,160
Mohammed in the sky mm-hmm I think the I

1123
00:48:57,290 --> 00:48:56,070
I think people are controlled as much as

1124
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,300
they're going to be because if it gets

1125
00:49:01,070 --> 00:48:59,280
if it gets much more obvious and that

1126
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:01,080
people get more people will get

1127
00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:04,530
suspicious so I think that you know most

1128
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:06,900
people the only thing that makes people

1129
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:09,090
really mad and makes them rise up as if

1130
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:10,890
they don't have enough to eat or you

1131
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:12,690
know enough TV to watch or whatever now

1132
00:49:18,190 --> 00:49:14,850
six meters away from a revolution right

1133
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:18,200
yeah exactly I was back 2,000 years

1134
00:49:22,820 --> 00:49:20,970
right with the Romans bread and circuses

1135
00:49:25,460 --> 00:49:22,830
you keep the fed and entertained and

1136
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:25,470
you'll have Pax Romana for 200 years

1137
00:49:30,290 --> 00:49:27,930
which which brings up what we said on

1138
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:30,300
our last chat at reality podcast about

1139
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:34,380
how six corporations as of ten years ago

1140
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:36,510
and probably less now six corporations

1141
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:39,660
basically control everything that you

1142
00:49:45,650 --> 00:49:41,460
see on the television or hear on the

1143
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:45,660
radio except for us and Greg yeah that's

1144
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:49,890
right so keep listening and the Internet

1145
00:49:55,610 --> 00:49:51,690
can do good things too like bring down

1146
00:49:58,180 --> 00:49:55,620
Scientology yeah well that that boy over

1147
00:50:01,130 --> 00:49:58,190
on Hubbard really did a job didn't he I

1148
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:01,140
said I found a bunch of letters they

1149
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:02,850
wrote me in the 90s about something I

1150
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:04,530
published in my magazine and how angry

1151
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:05,700
they were about it

1152
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:07,530
Oh finally I told them look write a

1153
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:08,880
letter like anybody else and I'll

1154
00:50:12,050 --> 00:50:10,680
publish it and I did and they stopped

1155
00:50:13,550 --> 00:50:12,060
writing me letters but I found them all

1156
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:13,560
in the garage the other day all those

1157
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:17,310
like western US had world headquarters

1158
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:20,760
blah blah blah Scientology and then my

1159
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:22,710
address and my name you know could you

1160
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:24,030
please come down and talk to us you

1161
00:50:27,050 --> 00:50:24,990
published something that was completely

1162
00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:27,060
wrong and blah blah but I saved those

1163
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:29,790
letters oh good Wow that they're gonna

1164
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:33,150
be worthwhile I bet you can someday if

1165
00:50:35,450 --> 00:50:34,950
you need some money you can sell them on

1166
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:35,460
eBay

1167
00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:37,170
not that you would or maybe to Tom

1168
00:50:43,220 --> 00:50:40,320
Cruise I tried to buy an e meter off

1169
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:43,230
eBay and I lost the this was like 10

1170
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:46,170
years ago and I lost it was like $25 I

1171
00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:47,970
really wanted an e meter because I still

1172
00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:50,280
didn't have one in my house

1173
00:50:54,350 --> 00:50:52,950
and then about Oh three four or five

1174
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,360
months later Scientology got an

1175
00:50:59,810 --> 00:50:55,680
injunction and nobody could sell them

1176
00:51:02,540 --> 00:50:59,820
anymore well it's just really more or

1177
00:51:04,820 --> 00:51:02,550
less a galvanic skin response detect yes

1178
00:51:07,370 --> 00:51:04,830
yes I think so

1179
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:07,380
the thing about I had a friend that when

1180
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:10,170
I was in high school a man who had come

1181
00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:13,310
up I was a boy at the time come up from

1182
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:17,070
Key West Florida and he was a Cuban

1183
00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:19,590
fella and he was after he got out of

1184
00:51:24,620 --> 00:51:22,080
high school he was into Scientology and

1185
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:24,630
he wanted to bring me into Scientology

1186
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:27,510
and gave me all kinds of paraphernalia

1187
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:30,090
and literature about it and I looked at

1188
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,190
it and I said they're just talking like

1189
00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:34,800
Freudian psychology and this is really

1190
00:51:38,060 --> 00:51:36,750
that and they've just added new words to

1191
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:38,070
it and they want you don't think it's a

1192
00:51:44,060 --> 00:51:40,470
religion yeah now I'm gonna get letters

1193
00:51:45,110 --> 00:51:44,070
to Greg oh no you won't see the thing is

1194
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,120
that what I was saying about the

1195
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:48,000
internet and also about that the HBO

1196
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:51,330
film the getting going clear its they've

1197
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,530
gotten to the point where they can't

1198
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:54,180
control the information coming out about

1199
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:55,890
them so I don't think anybody's going to

1200
00:51:59,380 --> 00:51:57,690
be sued about anything ever again unless

1201
00:52:02,900 --> 00:51:59,390
it's just something absolutely horrible

1202
00:52:05,530 --> 00:52:02,910
I think that the yeah that that

1203
00:52:09,710 --> 00:52:05,540
documentary and basically the the the

1204
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:09,720
the freedom of the Internet is as for

1205
00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:10,710
the writing's on the wall for

1206
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,140
Scientology I think not not for the end

1207
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:14,880
of Scientology but just how big it is

1208
00:52:18,530 --> 00:52:17,250
or it will be which I don't think that

1209
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:18,540
you know it's already shrinking it's

1210
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:19,890
been shrinking for a couple years now

1211
00:52:28,100 --> 00:52:22,170
well I guess there are some good things

1212
00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:28,110
happening on the planet so - how we

1213
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:32,310
doing here did you by chance dredge up

1214
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:35,970
that the song that I love so much no but

1215
00:52:39,260 --> 00:52:37,290
I can send it to you because I couldn't

1216
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:39,270
remember what song it was I did find it

1217
00:52:42,050 --> 00:52:40,650
before and he said yeah that's the one

1218
00:52:45,980 --> 00:52:42,060
and then we haven't said anything about

1219
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:45,990
it since then okay well all I can say is

1220
00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:50,270
that Greg has a wonderful a wonderful

1221
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:54,510
show which is on radio on kill radio and

1222
00:52:58,940 --> 00:52:56,850
it the K is because out on the west

1223
00:53:01,220 --> 00:52:58,950
coast that all the stations start with a

1224
00:53:02,540 --> 00:53:01,230
K right Greg it's not no it's just

1225
00:53:04,010 --> 00:53:02,550
called kill radio because that's the

1226
00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:04,020
name it's an Internet station it's

1227
00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:07,380
live internet station radio org and I

1228
00:53:12,620 --> 00:53:09,960
just do my show on that and live on

1229
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:12,630
Sunday nights range and Pacific and then

1230
00:53:18,290 --> 00:53:15,330
when I get to you know when I get to it

1231
00:53:21,380 --> 00:53:18,300
I edit clean up and you know make

1232
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:21,390
listenable the episodes and put them up

1233
00:53:26,930 --> 00:53:23,970
for podcasts on the site and on iTunes

1234
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:26,940
and stuff like that and you know I was

1235
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:30,210
thrilled when I found Gregg on on I

1236
00:53:34,550 --> 00:53:32,400
thought it was an actual radio station

1237
00:53:37,370 --> 00:53:34,560
that broadcast on in California as well

1238
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:37,380
so I was I was mistaken but I was so

1239
00:53:42,730 --> 00:53:40,250
thrilled to find Gregg and his his

1240
00:53:45,980 --> 00:53:42,740
refreshing sense of humor

1241
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:45,990
combined with his interest in the

1242
00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:50,460
paranormal and a kind of different look

1243
00:53:59,180 --> 00:53:56,310
at the word which can't be mentioned and

1244
00:54:01,730 --> 00:53:59,190
other paranormal things and and the

1245
00:54:05,660 --> 00:54:01,740
wonderful music that he he collects

1246
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:05,670
there and plays and you know that music

1247
00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:08,240
about the captain who brings you to

1248
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:11,880
Venus and Mars in Calypso rhythm is is

1249
00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:14,190
certainly one of them one day I'm gonna

1250
00:54:19,390 --> 00:54:16,590
have to find it I can't remember do you

1251
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:19,400
remember where we mailing or maybe we're

1252
00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:22,110
on Facebook about it because I remember

1253
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:23,910
I said that's the it's is it this and

1254
00:54:29,290 --> 00:54:25,830
you said that's the one and if I can

1255
00:54:31,310 --> 00:54:29,300
look at maybe I can go back in our

1256
00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:31,320
conversation history and see which one

1257
00:54:36,860 --> 00:54:34,110
it is it's such a delicious calypso

1258
00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:36,870
rhythm and then he's I'll be your

1259
00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:45,120
captain to Venus in any case so what's

1260
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:49,350
what's next for you Greg I am it is on

1261
00:54:53,420 --> 00:54:51,210
my screen right now as I'm talking to

1262
00:54:56,990 --> 00:54:53,430
you I'm working on a collection of a

1263
00:55:02,270 --> 00:54:57,000
book collection of stuff that I wrote

1264
00:55:06,620 --> 00:55:02,280
for UFO mystic euphemistic from 2007 to

1265
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:06,630
about 2011 or 12 which is very hard to

1266
00:55:11,090 --> 00:55:08,760
find online now some of its impossible

1267
00:55:12,890 --> 00:55:11,100
and as well as some new things I've

1268
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:12,900
written and then some other ones that

1269
00:55:15,830 --> 00:55:14,130
either you know have never been

1270
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:15,840
published before or I wrote specifically

1271
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:17,190
for the book so it's a

1272
00:55:23,180 --> 00:55:20,760
now it's probably 20% stuff people have

1273
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,190
never seen and about maybe 10% of stuff

1274
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:25,200
that's never been published before and

1275
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:26,970
it's just it's you know people I've met

1276
00:55:33,740 --> 00:55:29,970
in the UFO and paranormal thing that's

1277
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:33,750
one chapter two big chapters are just

1278
00:55:38,329 --> 00:55:37,500
opinions about things and theory I wrote

1279
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:38,339
an essay called

1280
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:42,050
our UFO as a cosmic art project that's

1281
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:44,250
yeah that one has been picked up and

1282
00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:45,839
people have run with that one which is

1283
00:55:49,550 --> 00:55:48,270
good but I wanted to reiterate by

1284
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:49,560
publishing this book it's like well I

1285
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,450
wrote this in 2007 however I was so

1286
00:56:00,380 --> 00:55:56,160
entranced with it that I wrote a part

1287
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:00,390
two it's called it's called UFOs as a

1288
00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:02,640
cosmic art project part two the

1289
00:56:08,510 --> 00:56:05,910
co-creation hypothesis so that's a 1500

1290
00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:08,520
word piece that's new and sort of talks

1291
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:09,960
about where my thinking is right now

1292
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:13,440
about the UFO subject and what where it

1293
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:15,450
might come from and how we might

1294
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:17,609
contribute to the experience which i

1295
00:56:23,660 --> 00:56:19,730
think is very heavily contributed

1296
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:23,670
absolutely by that by by our psyches

1297
00:56:26,690 --> 00:56:24,720
which I mentioned at the beginning

1298
00:56:28,730 --> 00:56:26,700
that's the thing I'm obsessed with right

1299
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:28,740
now which point brings us to the

1300
00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:32,819
question in so many of the accounting of

1301
00:56:40,910 --> 00:56:38,510
people it would appear as though the the

1302
00:56:43,970 --> 00:56:40,920
aliens for lack of a better word the

1303
00:56:46,609 --> 00:56:43,980
others are giving us information or

1304
00:56:48,890 --> 00:56:46,619
giving the contactee or the abductee or

1305
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:48,900
whoever's making the contact they're

1306
00:56:54,020 --> 00:56:51,569
giving them information that turns out

1307
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:54,030
to be false which brings up the question

1308
00:57:01,280 --> 00:56:57,930
are these entities lying to us or are we

1309
00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:01,290
merely miss apprehending what they have

1310
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:05,640
to communicate I wouldn't exactly know

1311
00:57:10,670 --> 00:57:07,650
but I would point up the fact that when

1312
00:57:12,380 --> 00:57:10,680
people start getting spirit messages and

1313
00:57:14,990 --> 00:57:12,390
using Ouija boards the same thing

1314
00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:15,000
happens yes

1315
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:17,940
first they get true stuff and then they

1316
00:57:23,569 --> 00:57:21,599
get twisted it's like yeah war yeah so

1317
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:23,579
it does that mean yeah exactly so does

1318
00:57:28,790 --> 00:57:26,609
that mean we're contributing but you

1319
00:57:31,130 --> 00:57:28,800
know do our fears get in the way and

1320
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:31,140
screw up the signal that might be

1321
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:32,850
the excitement and the fear and the

1322
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:35,220
eagle and all that might be part of that

1323
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:38,250
also you know I you know for that matter

1324
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:40,770
there might be what we might know as

1325
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:43,130
evil entities trying to screw with us I

1326
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:45,450
kinda I think I'm careful though not to

1327
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:47,490
try and blame evil entities because then

1328
00:57:50,450 --> 00:57:48,660
that means people don't have to blame

1329
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:50,460
themselves for doing bad things well

1330
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:53,010
there's that but I kind of think that

1331
00:57:59,090 --> 00:57:56,790
you know being in the area of psychic

1332
00:58:03,590 --> 00:57:59,100
reading and that sort of thing I have

1333
00:58:06,050 --> 00:58:03,600
seen situations where people have put

1334
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:06,060
their trust in the idea that they were

1335
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:09,090
communicating with you know aunt Bertha

1336
00:58:14,330 --> 00:58:12,570
who passed and then the and I'm not a

1337
00:58:18,050 --> 00:58:14,340
medium so I'm not going there but

1338
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:18,060
somehow they put their faith that they

1339
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:21,090
were talking to aunt Bertha because the

1340
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:23,370
entity or the information came through

1341
00:58:26,540 --> 00:58:23,760
that

1342
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:26,550
aunt Bertha always wore a golden locket

1343
00:58:32,930 --> 00:58:29,760
and it had a hair of her her deceased

1344
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:32,940
husband in it or something and that the

1345
00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:35,610
entity knew this and communicated this

1346
00:58:42,770 --> 00:58:39,900
and then it starts to go south somewhere

1347
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:42,780
and so one gets the impression that one

1348
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:47,280
ought not to trust necessarily with

1349
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:50,310
without without a little Federation

1350
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:53,970
these yeah these messages that come true

1351
00:58:59,950 --> 00:58:56,760
oh that come through even though some of

1352
00:59:03,110 --> 00:58:59,960
them tend to be true one has to be a

1353
00:59:05,660 --> 00:59:03,120
cautious consumer well I think that the

1354
00:59:08,300 --> 00:59:05,670
concept of time that we have is is not

1355
00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:08,310
exactly that most people have is not

1356
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:10,080
exactly right and if we learn anything

1357
00:59:17,870 --> 00:59:15,530
from the remote viewing arena is that a

1358
00:59:21,530 --> 00:59:17,880
lot of things that go on where you

1359
00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:21,540
somebody predicts the future it's it

1360
00:59:25,250 --> 00:59:23,910
later turns out that that that whatever

1361
00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:25,260
that future that was predicted is

1362
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:27,660
revealed to them so what are we doing

1363
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:29,490
are we seeing into the future because

1364
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:31,530
either we're predicting the future or

1365
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:33,810
we're somehow becoming unstuck from time

1366
00:59:39,740 --> 00:59:36,090
and seeing what's going to be told to us

1367
00:59:41,060 --> 00:59:39,750
or happened to us in the future and that

1368
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:41,070
doesn't mean you can tell the future

1369
00:59:43,940 --> 00:59:42,690
just means you can be on it that's what

1370
00:59:44,660 --> 00:59:43,950
it looks like it just means it's your

1371
00:59:46,970 --> 00:59:44,670
unstuck from

1372
00:59:49,220 --> 00:59:46,980
timestream well that there's there's

1373
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:49,230
that possibility or you could be nudging

1374
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:50,970
the future you know I think the closer

1375
00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:53,250
it's like a UFO thing a a UFO encounter

1376
00:59:59,289 --> 00:59:55,049
the closer you are to it the more it

1377
01:00:03,099 --> 00:59:59,299
affects you well there you go

1378
01:00:07,130 --> 01:00:03,109
okay someone's sending us a message

1379
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:07,140
indeed Greg I think that your new book

1380
01:00:12,380 --> 01:00:09,450
is going to be extremely fascinating

1381
01:00:15,620 --> 01:00:12,390
please tell us the title yes I don't

1382
01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:15,630
know the title okay but you are the

1383
01:00:20,809 --> 01:00:17,849
author you're one out like when changing

1384
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:20,819
the title as I'm doing the layout when

1385
01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:23,369
you get the title we will simply put it

1386
01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:27,260
on the page that contains your interview

1387
01:00:32,569 --> 01:00:30,119
so it would be alright right now it's

1388
01:00:34,220 --> 01:00:32,579
called faulty radios because there was a

1389
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:34,230
problem yeah there was a quote from

1390
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,730
William Burroughs that I liked it said

1391
01:00:39,620 --> 01:00:37,680
some of us are tuning in to a universal

1392
01:00:41,420 --> 01:00:39,630
message but with faulty radios huh

1393
01:00:43,579 --> 01:00:41,430
oh that's good one yeah but that's

1394
01:00:45,950 --> 01:00:43,589
dangerous sure you know it just it's

1395
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:45,960
just too obscure for me this was there's

1396
01:00:52,339 --> 01:00:49,680
a famous book that called mental radio

1397
01:00:53,539 --> 01:00:52,349
and I think it was yes Upton Sinclair

1398
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:53,549
right right

1399
01:00:58,880 --> 01:00:55,920
that was his experiments with his wife

1400
01:01:02,960 --> 01:00:58,890
in basically in remote viewing yes yes

1401
01:01:05,630 --> 01:01:02,970
the 1930s yeah probably

1402
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:05,640
spanned I think it started in the 20s

1403
01:01:15,380 --> 01:01:13,130
that book you have the one with the

1404
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:15,390
earth with the Albert Einstein quote on

1405
01:01:19,970 --> 01:01:17,130
it and then the picture of a brain on

1406
01:01:24,170 --> 01:01:19,980
the cover no I don't think so I have the

1407
01:01:31,059 --> 01:01:24,180
newer Edition that it was a redone by I

1408
01:01:33,799 --> 01:01:31,069
think it is by the Virginia the Virginia

1409
01:01:36,620 --> 01:01:33,809
publishing house in Rhode Hampton Roads

1410
01:01:38,329 --> 01:01:36,630
yes the reprint oh okay yeah yeah okay

1411
01:01:40,099 --> 01:01:38,339
yeah I felt before they reprinted it I

1412
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:40,109
found in a used bookstore somewhere so

1413
01:01:45,130 --> 01:01:42,089
yeah I still have it I read I read it

1414
01:01:48,289 --> 01:01:45,140
years ago probably ten years ago

1415
01:01:51,319 --> 01:01:48,299
fascinating book yes it is it is it's

1416
01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:51,329
it's it's a that's why Hampton Roads

1417
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:53,700
reprinted it because it's a classic of

1418
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:54,770
Perak

1419
01:02:01,170 --> 01:01:58,090
psychology yeah Eve is how they

1420
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:01,180
and they they published you know a 1012

1421
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:04,330
books of that nature that had been had

1422
01:02:11,730 --> 01:02:07,330
gone out of print well I think the time

1423
01:02:13,830 --> 01:02:11,740
has come for us to say goodbye but we

1424
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:13,840
would love to have you on again sometime

1425
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:18,490
and you know discuss mr. a Bruce do n

1426
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,010
Singh who has passed and who I had the

1427
01:02:26,730 --> 01:02:22,960
pleasure of listening to several times

1428
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:26,740
on radio mysterioso as well as your

1429
01:02:31,620 --> 01:02:29,050
interviews with Carla Turner another

1430
01:02:33,570 --> 01:02:31,630
person who we won't have the opportunity

1431
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:33,580
to interview in the flesh here on

1432
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:35,710
shattered reality but who is a

1433
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:39,370
fascinating subject of that which came

1434
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:41,290
that study which she was a good friend

1435
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:43,210
for a few years and she she left way too

1436
01:02:48,210 --> 01:02:46,330
soon yes few of those people few things

1437
01:02:50,370 --> 01:02:48,220
people that affected my life like that

1438
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:50,380
went away way too soon as she was one of

1439
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:52,000
them the other was Mario possibly the

1440
01:02:57,420 --> 01:02:55,210
alien writing guy yeah I don't know I

1441
01:03:00,510 --> 01:02:57,430
know about Carla and of course I heard

1442
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:00,520
Bruce on the show on writing mysterioso

1443
01:03:05,610 --> 01:03:03,520
but I don't know much about the the

1444
01:03:07,770 --> 01:03:05,620
alien writing guy I'm gonna have to look

1445
01:03:09,210 --> 01:03:07,780
him up a little bit more there's an

1446
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:09,220
interview I have with him from the

1447
01:03:14,460 --> 01:03:11,890
magazine it's still a partial part of

1448
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:14,470
the interview at the at excluded middle

1449
01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:18,370
calm mm-hmm I have seen and I will I

1450
01:03:23,220 --> 01:03:20,470
will check it out a little bit in

1451
01:03:25,410 --> 01:03:23,230
greater depth okay but thank you very

1452
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:25,420
much and we hope to have you won again

1453
01:03:29,310 --> 01:03:27,520
yeah it's been wonderful speaking to you

1454
01:03:32,370 --> 01:03:29,320
thank you so much for being on our

1455
01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:32,380
little podcast sure loved it we have one